POP marks messages as read on server, BUT THEY AREN'T!!!!

[jedwards014]

Scalix 11 something Enterprise. Thunderbird as POP client. Outlook 2003 in office.
POP checks mail. Outlook shows all the messages were read, even though none were read. User forgets to turn off POP client at home. Drives to office, all messages, all day, are marked as read in Outlook just because POP client downloaded mail.

What now?

[mikevl]

Hi

Need more onfo here.

What version of the server are you using
What clients are you using?
Any other relevant info would be helpful.

Very difficult to diagnose the problem give the current info.

Mike

[jaime.pinto]

What now?

Tell user: bad user! bad user! Quit your pop client at home before driving to the office!

For the remainder of that day temporarily change the password on the server for that user, so the stubborn client at home will fail to authenticate, therefore stopping the undesirable interference with the server.

Later on ask the user to reset the password back to what it was before.

[jedwards014]

scalix-11.1.0-GA-enterprise-redhat-intel (This is the Scalix server)
Mozilla Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (This is the POP client)
MickeySoft Office Outlook 2003 (This is the Outlook client)


How does knowing the exact versions help you?

When ANY POP client retrieves mail from Scalix server, Scalix server marks the messages as read for ANY Outlook client. When Outlook is opened, even though no mail has been read, the messages are marked as having been read because the POP client downloaded a copy. This is something Scalix does, not the POP client. Not the Outlook connector. Perhaps there's an om command to tell the Scalix server to stop doing this. Getting mail isn't reading mail, right? Hint: Other server systems don't do this.

As for the other response: Duh!
We tell people not to install software without our review. They install software. We tell them not to open email attachments that morons send them. They open them anyway. We tell them to keep their cakes and crackers and sodas and bottled water away from the computer. They fill keyboards with Starbucks anyway. At least you have a sense of humor about this stuff. I think I'm getting so burned out dealing with 'happy users' that I lost my ability to grin at their thoughtlessness.

[Valerion]

To change this you need to file a bug report in Scalix Bugzilla. Can't spot anything in the Admin Guide and I don't work with POP3 clients a lot, so it may be possible.

I do see the behaviour as correct, though, as the server has NO way of determining whether a mail is read of not (completely done on the client). Not sure what the relevant RFC have to say (if anything) about this.

[jedwards014]

Thanks for your response.

Marking a message as having been read is usually a function of the POP client, not the server. This was considered a bug in (Ahem) Exchange Server prior to 2000. It was corrected in 2000 SP3, but reapperaed in Exchange 2003 SP1.

There is no RFC specification for POP 'servers' marking messages as read. So, I guess it wouldn't be fair to Scalix to call it a defect or bug. However, since Scalix is many times better than Exchange in every way, and Mickeysoft saw it as a bug, perhaps Scalix should see it as a bug. There are legitimate reasons for a person to use a POP client, on occasion, when using Scalix.

[Valerion]

The only place to get it changed is to bring it to the attention of the developers, and they focus on the Bugzilla. page. So I suggest you post it there, or search for the issue first.

[plaurent]

Yes. Having the same issue here as well. Client has a TREO phone that checks email through the VZW Wireless sync service. Mail is polled through POP (or IMAP), and in that process ends up marking the mail read in the MAPI Outlook connection. Does IMAP produce this same behavior?

[nvehommes]

While not explicitly stated in RFC 1939, the text under "8. Scaling and Operational Considerations" clearly implies that a message is considered "read" once it has been retrieved from the server. This is common and reasonable behavior of most POP3 servers. It may be considered somewhat poor design, but it definitely is not a server bug. On the contrary, one should say that Microsoft, by not marking retrieved messages as read, introduced a "bug" in Exchange Server 2000 SP3, but they corrected it in Exchange 2003 SP1.

If a user leaves his POP3 client at home running, that is his fault. This is known as PEBKAC; the acronym stands for "Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair". Its severity seems to correlate with the square of the salary of the user.