Article re: Xandros, Scalix, Microsoft

[shlashdot]

Xandros + Microsoft Deal Gives Linux E-mail Server a Second Chance

http://www.betanews.com/article/Xandros ... 1187211088

[Derek]

Ok, so what does this all mean? Will ScalixConnect and SmartCache go away? How long before we have a supported wireless product?

[jaime.pinto]

Ok, so what does this all mean?

The guy that wrote the article (Scott M. Fulton, III, BetaNews) is all confused and misinformed! The "Scalix Connector" he is referring to only exists *in his mind*. Scalix does not have a "connector" for Windows Mobile-equipped handsets, or any mobile device for that matter, although it would be really nice if they did. The only mobile product Scalix has ever managed to develop and release to date is a much simplified version of a web page to fit a small screen, that's all, no more. no less.

The *Scalix Connector* as we know has absolutely nothing to do with mobiles. It's a product developed to integrate Office Outlook (or Evolution on linux) with a Scalix Server, again no more, no less!

The "true" mobile connector mentioned anywhere in his article is actually called *ActiveSync", which by the way is not all that great. .ActiveSync "connects" a strictly Windows Mobile based device (with Windows *Messenger* installed) via an USB or serial cable to a *computer* with Office Outlook or Outlook Express installed in it.. Again that's it, a lot less, "barely more". I say barely more because ActiveSync actually attempts to let Messenger (in the mobile) piggy-back on Outlook to reach a exchange like server at the other side. Sometimes the other side is a Scalix Server, so the stupid ActiveSync "connector" has to allow Messenger to connect with Outlook, which in turn relies on the Scalix connector to reach the server. Who said the scalix connector is the one to blame for ActiveSync being stupid?

Anyway, as he said, MS extended it to over-the-air synchronization with an Exchange Server, but it was not built for it. It is ugly.

So, based on what I understood from the deal, MS would release this *IP crap" (whatever the heck it is) to Xandros, so that the IP crap that Exchange server has already would also be integrated into the Scalix server. So here is the question: wouldn't this ActiveSync over-the-air synchronization with the IP crap in a Scalix Server be as ugly as with an Exchange Server?

Here is yet a more intriguing question: Would Scalix be able to make a better integration of the IP crap than MS has been so far, so that ActiveSync over-the-air would work better with Scalix than with Exchange?

So here is the ultimate question:Why should Scalix bother with any of this MS garbage, and instead just develop a true Scalix connector for Mobile Messenger? Screw ActiveSync! Screw IP crap integration into Scalix! Just use it to learn better how exactly is that MS develops their Outlook and Messenger clients, and improve both the Scalix Server and the Scalix Connetors (Outlook, Evolution and Messenger). It would take way less time, and Scalix could take their server to a level way beyond what Exchange could ever reach, and still beat Zimbra and NotifyLink in their game.

Will ScalixConnect and SmartCache go away?

I don't think so. Now that I have it I don't want it to go. I love it and MS has nothing of the kind in their 2007 line of products yet. SP1 for vista and SP1 for Office2007 are over 1 year away, and I really don't expect them to introduce something as well conceived as SmartCache at least until SP2, 2 years away! Forget about it.

How long before we have a supported wireless product?

Hey Florian, can you tell us a little something about a possible supported integration with funambol or the likes (SyncML)?

[jaime.pinto]

So Derek, I guess Florian did answer your questions and some of mine on another post in the feedback area:

... maybe it addresses your concern if you know that we currently see the 'Active Sync Server' (or Gateway or whatever) as an optional product component that will be implemented in a separate module; as such, the core of the system will not be touched by it and you would be able to implement Scalix without ever applying the technology; again, this is unless you would want to use AS devices and functionality.

viewtopic.php?t=7801&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45#38673

[florian]

Wow, interesting discussion ... couple of points ...

1. There is a 3rd party solution today, NotifyLink for Scalix, that adds a 'Connector', i.e. a device client to the Windows Mobile device, allowing for wireless synchronisation today. The same server supports Blackberry and Palm devices as well and will provide for support of Symbian devices very soon.

2. We are looking into providing an active sync server that would talk directly to the devices' built in Active Sync client; that would be based on the protocol specs licensed from Microsoft. Jaime, your report that this doesn't work well with Exchange currently contradicts with 'bout any other report I have had about the technology - can you possibly be more specific to why you are so negative about the solution? I am certainly the biggest supporter of Open Standards based protocols, but for Windows Mobile and other devices with built-in Active Sync support, it seems that ActiveSync is by far the more powerful solution. The key entry point here is that NO additional software whatsoever needs to be deployed on the device - a big plus to start with. I cannot provide a timeframe on such a product yet, but given customer demand it is certainly a priority and I'd hope we'll get something to market in the next 12 months or earlier.

3. Doing our own on-device software is a non-starter. That would put us in the business of supporting literally tens of different mobile devices on our own and at least at this point I believe others are better setup to do this or we should just use what the device itself provides.

4. As for Scalix Connect for Outlook, this will most likely not go away anytime soon; in principle, with the license on OETP from Microsoft, we could technically do it, but I foresee this being an extended process, carefully looking at the pros and cons of this vs. the intelligence we built into Scalix Connect and/or SmartCache. We might also look into a hybrid solution that has some appeal as well. What I do believe is that this will improve our interop with Outlook big time. Stay tuned.

Florian.

[keywestcity]

We use Notifylink and it works great!

[jaime.pinto]

Ok! Today we finally caved in: we officially installed our first cut of Windows 2003 in our facility. The objective is to host our own NotifyLink server.

The first thing somewhat new, and rubbing at my face was the cost (new server, license for this, for that, for that other thing, plus so many users, plus support for this, for that, yada yada yada ...). What the heck! It never ends! The other thing is the time to set this up: so far most of the day, and all that got done was the MS crap (Windows Server, MS SQL, plus the service packs, plus the security patches, etc, etc.). Tomorrow I'll do the NotifyLink itself.

Since last December I've been seeking a good compromise for our wireless WinMob devices and some phones. We have several of them. Don't take me wrong, I eventually always get it to work, but not without hassle. So far we relied partially on some other department's Exchange server for specific needs, and I could never tell for sure if the hardship was due to our ActiveSync setup on the mobiles or the server itself.

This week I'm hoping this all should change for the better!

On another note, my experience with BlackBerries has been completely the opposite. Up until February I had never used one before (after almost 10 years of Palm/Nokia and HP/iPaq), and I got the first one just for testing for our group. Not even a week later we're all converted, and we got 7 more shortly after. It has been the most pleasant and sweet experience yet. Depending on how successful this integration with NotifyLink turns out we may drop all other devices and stick with BB only for phone/email/calendar.

[Mouseclone]

wow thx for the info. I will have to look into that was well. currently i'm trying to get windows out of my data center

[jaime.pinto]

One week after we started to use NofityLink I can tell that, despite the MS crap in the middle, the Over-the-Air Scalix <=> NotifyLink <=> Blackberry pipeline works very well. The system works just like expected, simple and easy for the end user. I've been getting emails, tasks, calendar items and contacts synced both ways very quicky, seldom more than 10 minutes (so far).

All communication between the BB and the NL server happens over port 80 (or 443), and those are the only ports that need to be open to/from the internet.

The system offers a web GUI where users can select which folders to show on the BB (really nice!), and many other features.

The only thing bothering us A LOT is a built-in NotifyLink footnote, that shows at the bottom of the signature of every mail sent from the BB. On that basis alone we're debating whether or not to keep this system. We don't want to broadcast *their propaganda* to our associates.

I have not tried the WinMob devices yet.

[bdinger]

I'll throw in some Windows Mobile/Active Sync insight: They stink. I used Palm devices forever, then we had an application that wouldn't work on a Palm, but would on a Win Mobile. So I caved and we purchased a loaded out Dell Axim. Initially it worked great. Playing media files, all kinds of stuff was a revelation beyond what I was used to. It even had wifi!

Then I tried to sync it with both my laptop and my desktop. Chaos ensued. I'd say that out of the probably hundreds of times I tried, it synced between the two sucessfully.. once or twice. It was an utter disaster. Then after about a year it constantly started having issues. Active Sync wouldn't detect the device, so I'd have to reboot. Active Sync would crash. It would mysteriously lose data on both ends. I finally got so frustrated with it that I said "enough!" and got a Treo 650. I'll never look back.

Another exec needed a new PDA at the time when I had my brief love affair with the Axim, so I spec'd him a newer model. One of the last ones they made, with the nice screen, wifi, bluetooth.. all that good stuff. He too had about six months of stellar luck with it, then like I did, he tried to sync it with two computers. It all went downhill from there. Do you want trouble? Sometime, try to tell a SALES MANAGER that ActiveSync just deleted ALL of the contacts in his PDA for apparently no reason.

He had it worse, though. The device would randomly reboot and lock up. One time while out of town he took just the device, happy to rely on free wifi to pick up his email. The device hard locked on the "Dell" screen and wouldn't un-freeze. Removing the battery, no go. After an hour on the phone with Dell, they apparently told him "that's what they do sometimes". Neither of us were shocked when a month later we heard that Dell was dumping the Axim line. We're now evaluating a Palm T|X and a Treo 755 (new Sprint PalmOS) for him.

I'm not alone. I know a institution that purchased three dozen Windows Mobile Treos after they had such great luck with their Treo 600/650's over the years, but wanted "Exchange integration". Put simply, they were so horrible that they have - literally - a box of Treo 750's that will never be used again. Dropped calls, random reboots, Exchange syncronization hard-locking the device. All of that. They've moved on to Blackberries, and couldn't be more pleased.

That's my views, florian, on ActiveSync and Windows Mobile. Essentially, it stinks, and most who have a Windows Mobile device are getting rid of them. Just look at the Windows Mobile page for a device list. Hint: it's getting very, very, very slim.

I'd focus on Treo and Blackberry integration. Maybe even making a connector that allows more seamless Thunderbird and Sunbird integration. I'd personally love that.

But Outlook, Windows Mobile, and Active Sync? No thanks.

[florian]

Hi,

thanks for your feedback; however, this is really a complex issue.

First, there are two flavors of Active Sync - one has been around for a long time, works via USB and comes in the form of a PC app talking to Outlook. This works with Scalix, however, we have recently discovered a number of bugs and will provide better support for this with our Outlook connector in the upcomign Scalix 11.2 release.

Then there is Active Sync Over The Air (sometimes dubbed AirSync). This is the wireless protocol between MS-Exchange and a wireless mobile device and this is what the current and new license agreement with MSFT covers; as per my best knowledge and inspite of all the issues with Windows Mobile devices per se, the protocol works very well - not as perfect and flawless as the Blackberry yet, but very close. Microsoft is gaining market share with this rapidly. We will be implementing this protocol in a future version of Scalix, I would currently think this will happen in 1H/2008. Note that besides the functionality (syncing mailbox with handheld device) and product name (which is a marketing thing I believe), the two Active Syncs have nothing in common on the technical side.

Also note that Active Sync on the device side is not only available for Windows Mobile devices. Palm has been offering the protocol in their later versions of Versamail and it is available in various non-Windows Smartphones from various vendors such as Nokia, Motorola and Sony Ericsson - so it provides for a very broad coverage. Obviously, the one device excluded is the Blackberry.

Therefore, IMHO it makes a lot of sense to give this a good level of priority; solutions for the Blackberry get the same attention from my perspective, however given that there are more 3rd party components involved (not only do we need the devices, but also some kind of wireless server that we cannot provide ourselves), so this is a more complex matter. Rest assured, it's a priority and focus as well and stay tuned for updates on this.

Wireless is not a straightforward and level playing field - I don't think there is a one size fits all solution; we're trying to stick to our 'Clients of Choice' model and extend it to this important space - given all planning and stuff that's coming up, I think it's a valid claim.

Florian.

[jaime.pinto]

Here is the latest on the Footnote in NotifyLink signature:

Hello, Jaime,

Here is your answer regarding the footnote issue:

Yes in 4.6 we will allow the ability to change this setting. We have had do it up 'till now, due to patent infringement avoidance with RIM but they told us we can make it optional in the future and they wouldn't come back and sue us. So we will be able to offer our customers 3 choices. 1) keep it, 2) turn it off or 3) make up their own!!!!!

Regards,

Rick Newcombe
Enterprise Sales Manager, Canada/EMEA
1-780-413-9578

As a side note, management is really happy with scalix "now", primarily because most of them have BB, and they in turn are very happy with the scalix/Notifylink/BB integration. We have made an executive decision not to bother with WinMob devices anymore. New data phones will be all Blackberries from now on.

For those of you sitting on the fence, this is a somewhat pricey solution, but worry free, and really nice from the perspective of both the end-user and the sysadm.

[techsharp]

Jaime -

How much does it cost to purchase NotifyLink? Do they do licenses on a per-user basis?

We actually have a Windows Server 2003 machine in house for our VOIP - so that cost would not be an issue.

I might actually give this a shot.

Thanks!

[jaime.pinto]

If you're in Canada just call Rick. They have a "price model" depending on your industry.

[florian]

jaime, congrats - you were faster to respond than I am really in reading this stuff..

cool.

flo.