Troubleshooting Scalix issues

[RSisco]

I think the key component we are forgetting here is Linux. People continually compare Scalix problems and integration to those of Exchange. I think they are taking for granted the ease (and thus lack of customization) of installing add-ons in a Windows environment compared to Linux. I'm sure that if Scalix were a Windows-based server, some problems would go away, but so would the level of customization that we enjoy. I have all kinds of "hacked" solutions to little intricacies and requests that come my way from my users. On a Windows-based server I would have had to tell them it wasn't possible. This will also decrease the amount of participation in the project, as not all sys admins will tackle maintaining a Linux server - ultimately leading to what appears to be a reduced amount of information and support.

Richard

[joako]

I think here is one good example. HP OpenMail manual has 20 pages about the message store, it's structure, the item structure server, single user restore, etc. Many of these concepts are not explored in the Scalix manual. 832 pages vs 265 pages.

ALL THE SCALIX MANUAL SAYS ABOUT THE MESSAGE STORE IS "The message store is the mail database". In contrast, HP OpenMail docs have 20 pages about the message store. I think this qualifies for saying "Scalix documentation is piss-poor."

[mikethebike]

I have an almost full compliment of Openmail OTNs, tech guides and Contact tech notes. I agree the Openmail notes were very good (indeed, many of the folk in Scalix have probably worked in developing Openmail and Contact). I have supplied various docs to forum members as they need them, and am happy to do that for anyone that wants them, all the principles are the same as Scalix...it just shows how robust the original product was.

Mick

[joako]

Yes, I agree. But it goes to show that scalix is dumbing down the documentation. It can't be for copyright reasons since some parts of the OpenMail manual are taken word-for-word into the Scalix manual. I think it's because Scalix wants to sell suppport contracts, unless you have a better explaination?

[mikethebike]

I think the OTNs were originally written by HP engineers, for HP engineers. They just made it into the public domain because the engineers worked so closely with their (paying) customers, and the customers liked the OTNs better that the technical documentation.
There will always be a cost associated with producing this documentation, and keeping it up to date, and thats where a support contract comes into play.
Maybe Scalix's failing is that they offer their cut-down product free-of-charge to such a large user base, maybe we should be grateful we get a free product, with free support from forum contributors?

[les]

I think here is one good example. HP OpenMail manual has 20 pages about the message store, it's structure, the item structure server, single user restore, etc. Many of these concepts are not explored in the Scalix manual. 832 pages vs 265 pages.

ALL THE SCALIX MANUAL SAYS ABOUT THE MESSAGE STORE IS "The message store is the mail database". In contrast, HP OpenMail docs have 20 pages about the message store. I think this qualifies for saying "Scalix documentation is piss-poor."

Lets see.....

Item Structure Server. Show me one person who uses that? I looked at that years ago. Its an ancient way of rolling forward/back mail transactions. Nobody uses it as it is too complex to understand. When i looked at it years ago there might have been 1 or 2 guys at Scalix who could understand it. it is always turned off by default. People use tar/rsync/sxmboxexp for backups these days.

Single user restore....that's how it used to be done via the Item Structure Server. Nobody uses that. sxmboxexp and sxmboximp are the tools now. Oh and they are in the Scalix Adminsitration manual starting on page 99 with the section about backups.

And lets see, your screenshot....ok, what commands are listed on the openmail side that don't appear under scalix....

omdisksprd - obsolete.
omrestore - obsolete.
omsnoop - obsolete.
omstore - obsolete.

Don't forget there are man pages as well for all commands and omsolve for scalix errors.

Oh, and i thought you were complaining about not having every error documented? Now you've changed tack and started complaining about ancient technology to do with the Item Structure Server which no one uses and its not the officially recommended action to take in terms of backups.

When you buy your $250000 ferrari, and it comes with its owners manual is everything documented in it? Including all errors? Would you expect to be able to fix something broken in the engine, for free, just by reading the manual?

[mikethebike]

Hey Les...I gotta admit I have never ever seen single user restore Implemented (sometimes I wish I'd never seen BBs implemented, but thats another story )

Hey...and they ain't obsolete commands, they are "legacy" commands...don't forget you probably cut your teeth on those!!

[joako]

How should I know those commands are obsolete (the words depreciated or obsolte do not appear in the Scalix manual) if it's not documented by Scalix. Yes if I buy a Ferrari I would expect to have troubleshooting for it, probably not in the owners manual but it should be available somewhere. Where is the full & complete troubleshooting for Scalix? Buying a service contract is taking the car to the mechanic, I want to fix it myself. BTW I own a BMW and I have the factory service manuals & diagnostics software, that is the type of person I am.

Also wow so yes some commands *might* be obsolete, but that is not the main point. In OpenMail manual there are TWENTY pages about the mail store, basics like the structure. How do you expect someone to understand message store corruption if they don't understand the message store structure? The openmail manual explains the concept and then the commands. Scalix has removed the concepts and kept the info about the commands -- again, how can you use a command if you don't understand the concepts behind it? Scalix manual really is designed to steer you to buy a service contract.

[les]

Hey Les...I gotta admit I have never ever seen single user restore Implemented (sometimes I wish I'd never seen BBs implemented, but thats another story )

Hey...and they ain't obsolete commands, they are "legacy" commands...don't forget you probably cut your teeth on those!!

None of those commands exist on my servers in the current version of scalix. And i've never had to use them. I started at Scalix V9/V10. i said obsolete because they weren't around anymore.

[les]

How should I know those commands are obsolete (the words depreciated or obsolte do not appear in the Scalix manual) if it's not documented by Scalix. Yes if I buy a Ferrari I would expect to have troubleshooting for it, probably not in the owners manual but it should be available somewhere. Where is the full & complete troubleshooting for Scalix? Buying a service contract is taking the car to the mechanic, I want to fix it myself. BTW I own a BMW and I have the factory service manuals & diagnostics software, that is the type of person I am.

Also wow so yes some commands *might* be obsolete, but that is not the main point. In OpenMail manual there are TWENTY pages about the mail store, basics like the structure. How do you expect someone to understand message store corruption if they don't understand the message store structure? The openmail manual explains the concept and then the commands. Scalix has removed the concepts and kept the info about the commands -- again, how can you use a command if you don't understand the concepts behind it? Scalix manual really is designed to steer you to buy a service contract.

So, rather than flame and complain here in a user based forum why dont you POLITELY email support@scalix.com asking why this info is missing and whether it can be reinstated?

[joako]

I did and I instatly recieved a message stating that I would not be helped.

[William]

I got no response regarding a query about the emptiness of the knowledgebase to support@scalix.com (on 15/03/2010).

[TargetPractise]

People here, offer their help for free, in their own time. Probably 95%+ of posts nowadays come from Users, not Scalix employees. Some problems have been seen before and solutions can be found, for free. Others require Scalix to look into it and that means paid support.

I pay Scalix, for a product, that product has issues, and youre saying I should then pay scalix more money, to have them look into the issue?

Expecting documentation to be up to date and accurate on a product I pay for... nah, that isnt to much to ask.

[joako]

There will always be a cost associated with producing this documentation, and keeping it up to date, and thats where a support contract comes into play.

If you buy a support contract do you get better documentation? I would glady play for that, however I am not really interested in paying for a period "tech support" to resolve things for me.